Curse

runite ringleader · Aug 09, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Hello there, It is time for me to try out and make some nice variants for this build. Here is my variant, it has a 8 man build & a 4 man one also. It's also like a mini guide. Enjoy.

Note this has less protection then the original discord spam build. Try it out though, i've vanquished quite a few areas there.
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How this build was formed
*Note you DO NOT need to have certain build to play this team build

One day I noticed Sabway on wiki, so I took the build and used it and it was great. Next thing I knew was that a discordspam, 2 necromancer healers and a MM Bomber build was up on wiki, (http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Discord_Spam). Great I thought, the next thing I knew was that you needed to be a necromancer player in order to use this build which made me quite angry, but I managed to figure a way around this. I have now finished tested and tweaking the build a bit but now I need some feedback off my fellow players.

To test the beta build please copy the template, add the runes to the appropriate necromancer hero and then go into a area / mission and complete that area. See the weaknesses and strengths about that build and replying to this thread any comment about this build that you would like to discuss. I personally feel that this is better then the Sabway build in most cases.

This thread is split into two parts. The 4 man build and the 8 man build.

Here comes the builds.

8 man DiscordWay Beta 1.0

Heroes:

Necromancer hero 1:

Attributes:
Death magic: 12 + 1
Soul Reaping: 9 + 1
Curses: 9 + 1 + 1

Build:
[DISCORD][WEAKEN ARMOR][ENFEEBLING BLOOD][BARBS][SHADOW OF FEAR][PUTRID BILE][SIGNET OF LOST SOULS][DEATH PACT SIGNET]
Template code:
OAhDUslXSxMfC2BlBICKgVVJXA

Equipment:
A bonus weapon such as the hour glass will suffice, or any weapon will do. For those hardcore gamers alike among you 40/40 curses set would do nicely

Necromancer hero 2:

Attributes:
Death magic: 12 + 1 + 3
Soul Reaping: 8 + 1
Healing Prayers: 5
Protection Prayers: 9

Build:
[DISCORD][ANIMATE BONE MINIONS][DEATH NOVA][SIGNET OF LOST SOULS][BLOOD OF THE MASTER][PUTRID BILE][PROTECTIVE SPIRIT][DWAYNA'S SORROW]
Template code:
OANEUshd9JFzoAWFgGUVhHUPY0A

Equipment:
Any weapon, 40/40 Death set is optimal

Necromancer hero 3:

Attributes:
Death magic: 10 + 1
Soul Reaping: 8 + 1 + 1
Restoration magic: 12

Build:
[DISCORD][VENGEFUL WEAPON][PROTECTIVE WAS KAOLAI][SPIRIT LIGHT][MEND BODY AND SOUL][SIGNET OF LOST SOULS][LIFE][FLESH OF MY FLESH]
Build template:
OAhjUoGYIPxshJxbyJNrqjzLGA

Equipment:
Any weapon will suffice but a 40/40 restoration magic set is optimal

Henchman:
Mage Henchman / Interrupt
Meelee henchman (Warrior / Dervish) *Not assasin henchman

"This is where you take a decision
1. A healer henchman & a damage dealing henchman *If you think you can take on the area with 2 healers
2. 2 healer henchman if you are unsure about how hard the area / mission is to complete / vanquish

How the 8 man build works:
This is split into three parts. Damage dealt by the physicals (1), Damage dealt by discord (2), Damage dealt by AoE (3)
1. The curses necromancer has physical buffing hexes such as barbs and mark of pain which means that the minions and the meelee henchman in your party deals more damage towards the enemy. Not only this but the minions + the extra physical damage would mean death to the enemy, espicially with 10 bone minions.
2. The hexes that buff up your physicals also work in hand with discord. The condition for discord to be activated is that target foe is conditioned and either hexed or enchanted. So, not only do these hexes make your physicals deal massive damage as well as the conditions such as weaken armour which make your foes even weaker and easy to kill as it inflicts cracker armour it also means that your heroes can be able to fire off discord and 3 discords being spammed at once every 2 seconds meaning that massive spike damage is being dealt killing off priority targets very easily as well as killing off the enemy.
3. There was once slight flaw in this build. This was the lack of AoE damage to kill clumped enemies. I have solved this problem by including death nova on the MM so that soon enough when the bone minions rush into battle they will explode dealing massive AoE damage and poisoning to the clumped foes taking down them in seconds. Not only this, but the mage henchman that your should have recruited (fire preferrably) would cast high damage nukes such as fireball which would punish clumped up foes with the spike damage would mean that this build would counter-act almost all types of mobs.

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4 - 6 man DiscordWay Beta 1.0

Necromancer hero 1:

Attributes:
Death magic: 9 + 1
Soul reaping: 8 + 1
Curses: 9 + 1 + 1
Restoration magic: 10

Build:
[DISCORD][INSIDIOUS PARASITE][ENFEEBLE][BARBS][SHADOW OF FEAR][MEND BODY AND SOUL][SIGNET OF LOST SOULS][DEATH PACT SIGNET]
Build teamplate:
OAhkUkG4RGqTMbPUHKDICpZVN5C

Equipment:
Any weapon will suffice but a 40/40 curses set is optimal

Necromancer Hero 2:

Attributes:
Death magic: 12 + 1 + 3
Soul reaping: 8 + 1
Healing prayers: 9

Build:
[DISCORD][ROTTING FLESH][ANIMATE BONE MINIONS][BLOOD OF THE MASTER][DEATH NOVA][PATIENT SPIRIT][DWAYNA'S SORROW][SIGNET OF LOST SOULS]
Build template:
OANEUshd9JFzoAWFgGUVhHUPY0A

Equipment:]
Any weapon would suffice but a 40/40 death magic set is optimal

Necromancer Hero 3:

Attributes:
Death magic: 8 + 1
Soul reaping: 11 + 1 + 1
Restoration magic: 11

Build:
[DISCORD][WEAPON OF WARDING][MEND BODY AND SOUL][SPIRIT LIGHT][PROTECTIVE WAS KAOLAI][LIFE][SIGNET OF LOST SOULS][DEATH PACT SIGNET]
Build Template:
OAhjUgGb4OxsMm0cyNMHnV1kLA

Equipment:
Any weapon would suffice but a 40/40 restoration set would be optimal

Henchman (For 6 man areas):
- A mage henchman
- A monk henchman

How the 4 man build works:
Okay, 4 men builds are a bit tricky, mainly due to the small party size. This overcomes this by equipping all 3 heroes with healing skills and the healing necro with weapon of warding which acts like a extended duration of guardian which is unremovable. The damage comes from death nova on the minions, them going into battle and acting as bombs blowing themselves up quite quickly as the enemies kill them dealing massive AoE damage to the enemy. Also, before they detonate, they deal a considerable amount of damage through the use of the curses necro using physical damage enhancing hexes such a barbs. Not only do these do these effects but coupled with the MM bomber's rotting flesh for an extra AoE conditioner and the array of physical buffing hexes the curses necro has means that the heroes will be able to take down priority targets like a healer fast. It also enhances the damage dramatically.

Notes:
*All credit goes to the developer of this build which has come up of this wonderful idea.

Amendments:
--------------------------------------------------
*Last time the builds were edited were on 8/8/2008
8 Man Way:

Necromancer hero 1 (CURSES):
- Replaced suffering with shadow of fear
- Replaced mark of pain with putrid bile

Necromancer hero 2 (MM):
- Replaced putrid bile with rotting flesh
- Replaced Aegis with Protective Spirit

News:
-----------------------------------
8/8/08 9:44 GMT
Thanks goes to all those who have made comments about how I could improve the builds so far.

Shadow of fear is a nice skill. Its like 50% less damage off the warrior mobs, great I thought, so I replaced suffering, which has a measly -2 degen with it.

I didn't know MoP wasn't handled well by the heroes, so I replaced it with putrid bile.

I replaced aegis with protective spirit. A lot of you have mentioned that this is better then aegis. Am i wrong? I am not sure, I need feedback on this part, or what skill shall i replace for aegis?

I dont think vengeful weapon should be replaced by an attack skill. This is because it is overpowered, and acts like a quick, rechargable prot that can stop major spikes that otherwise would have killed the target.

More feedback is needed on the 4 man builds and off players who have tried the build for themselves.

DarkSpirit · Aug 09, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Get rid of Suffering because the -2 degen sucks. Replace that with [[Shadow of Fear]. Heroes also dont use Mark of Pain properly. This is what my Curse necro looks for my casters characters:

[Curse;OAhkUoG4BGqTMrMgIsD7uhp0kaD]

Also, no [[Protective Spirit] is bad in HM, and you are also not making full use of the almost limitless energy from soul reaping without it. Give the Putrid Bile to necro hero 3 and replace Vengeful Weapon with it. Replace Putrid Bile on your MM with Protective Spirit.

racondor · Aug 09, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Get rid of Suffering because the -2 degen sucks. Replace that with [[Shadow of Fear]. Heroes also dont use Mark of Pain properly. This is what my Curse necro looks for my casters characters:

[Curse;OAhkUoG4BGqTMrMgIsD7uhp0kaD]

Also, no [[Protective Spirit] is bad. Give the Putrid Bile to necro hero 3 and replace Vengeful Weapon with it. Replace Putrid Bile on your MM with Protective Spirit.

3 words : Mark of Pain

DarkSpirit · Aug 09, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by racondor

3 words : Mark of Pain

Heroes suck with MoP. They even cast it when there is only 1 monster left standing or on a single monster far away from the pack.

MoP is only good if you decide to micro it or on a human necro skill bar.

Motoko · Aug 09, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Get rid of Suffering because the -2 degen sucks.

Except thats the old version of the skill and the degen isnt bad.

Miska Bow · Aug 09, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

for any HM vanquishing I use a basic Discord MM witch leaves me with 66 SP and 3 slot to fill with some usefull stuff for the area im doing
[build=OABCUoxTMDPUFQDAAAQVFAA]

Next i use a Icy Vein curse necro for softening deal condition and dmg and a typical N/Rt healing necro.

My MM sometimes goes smiters for conditions, hexes and scourge healing, mesmer for a few interupt and backfire.

I dont call it Sabway or Discordway anymore, I just like to call it LEEROYWAY.

P.S.: As for me i just leech on them

DarkSpirit · Aug 09, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by runite ringleader

...

Necromancer hero 1:[/b][/u]

Attributes:
Death magic: 12 + 1
Soul Reaping: 9 + 1
Curses: 9 + 1 + 1

Build:
[DISCORD][WEAKEN ARMOR][ENFEEBLING BLOOD][BARBS][SUFFERING][MARK OF PAIN][SIGNET OF LOST SOULS][DEATH PACT SIGNET]
Template code:
OAhDUslXOxsPhdoMwGsEV1kL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

Except thats the old version of the skill and the degen isnt bad.

From official wiki:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Suffering

...he only has 11 to curse so it is -2 health degen, and just misses the break point.

Shadow of Fear is more useful in HM.

Turbobusa · Aug 09, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

A lot better than discord spam imo.
I'd fit protective spirit somewhere... I don't think SolS is really necessary so it might replace it.

AcousticMeanie · Aug 09, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Get rid of Suffering because the -2 degen sucks. Replace that with [[Shadow of Fear]. Heroes also dont use Mark of Pain properly. This is what my Curse necro looks for my casters characters:

[Curse;OAhkUoG4BGqTMrMgIsD7uhp0kaD]

The necro part of this bar is basicly all you need on that character, with the addition of signet of lost souls. The only concern is casting time. With two 2 second cast hex's that character spends a lot of time casting. Depending on the area i usually pick between the two and sub the other for [Putrid Bile]

However, the resto skills especially the spirit slow down the hexing/conditions and ultimately discord quite a bit. I'm not saying it doesn't work, it just sacrifices a lot of offense for minimal defense.

So with the two left over spots I usually bring and disable [Rend Enchantments] and whatever rez you'd like. This forces this enabling character to be johnny on the spot with the skills you want.

DarkSpirit · Aug 09, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcousticMeanie

The necro part of this bar is basicly all you need on that character, with the addition of signet of lost souls. The only concern is casting time. With two 2 second cast hex's that character spends a lot of time casting. Depending on the area i usually pick between the two and sub the other for [Putrid Bile]

2 seconds cast time is not that bad in PvE, if that bothers you, just bring a 40/40 set.

Quote:

However, the resto skills especially the spirit slow down the hexing/conditions and ultimately discord quite a bit. I'm not saying it doesn't work, it just sacrifices a lot of offense for minimal defense.

Which is why you have minions to help with the tanking. Recovery is good for party wide condition and helps with MBAS and Spirit Light besides just relying on Life which monsters like to attack anyway. Life would also self die after 20s, which means MBAS would lose condition removal and Spirit Light would cost you 17% sac until it is recast so relying on Life means you probably need to recast it during battles.

On that note about conditions, I would also replace SoLS on necro hero 3 with [[Foul Feast].

EDIT: As for your updated build, you dont need to bring 2 copies of Putrid Bile, one would just override the other and waste energy/recharge for nothing and you certainly dont need to get rid of Aegis, it is hard to mess up that spell even from a hero.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 09, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

For casters: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Promise

For phys: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Asuran_Scan

Downside to Asura Scan is the 5sec recharge, but it still helps free up space on the heroes since phys classes won't have to rely on them completely to apply the hexes.

You could make a build that relies on the heroes to meet Discord's reqs, but it's alot better if the player can do it - it gets the Discords going faster and frees up skillspace/attribute points. Even if you arn't using AP/AS, it's still a good idea to at least try to fix some hexes/conditions on your own bar rather than letting them do it all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Which is why you have minions to help with the tanking. Recovery is good for party wide condition and helps with MBAS and Spirit Light besides just relying on Life which monsters like to attack anyway.

EDIT: As for your updated build, you dont need to bring 2 copies of Putrid Bile, one would just override the other and waste energy/recharge for nothing....

Heroes won't override the same hexes unless it has some other effect attached to it. I always make sure that there's at least 2 Putrid Biles in my setup, thought I usually end up using 3.

DarkSpirit · Aug 09, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

For casters: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Promise

For phys: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Asuran_Scan

Downside to Asura Scan is the 5sec recharge, but it still helps free up space on the heroes since phys classes won't have to rely on them completely to apply the hexes.

AP is suppose to be cast when the target is dying so it doesn't expire before that. Relying on AP for Discord doesn't make as much sense especially if it is a monk boss that keeps healing, and you dont want to cast AP too early. Some other hexes maybe more suitable. I agree with you on the updated Asuran Scan.

Quote:

Heroes won't override the same hexes unless it has some other effect attached to it. I always make sure that there's at least 2 Putrid Biles in my setup, thought I usually end up using 3.

What if both heroes cast it on the same target at the same time? Also Putrid Bile is hardly the best hex to bring for this. So you have 1 Putrid Bile cast and the other 2 can't even cast theirs? Is that suppose to be the optimal setup? You are bringing 3 hexes for a max of only 3 health degen, I may as well bring more degen hexes for the 2 other skill slots for more damage at least. The main advantage of Putrid Bile is, it is Death magic so you save some attribute points but at the expense of 2 other skill slots in the party that becomes useless for the next 17s or until the target dies? Not worth it.

If I need to kill fast, I would bring 3 different hexes and cast them on the target, not 3 copies of the same hex. Even suffering at level 0 curse would add an extra -1 degen to the target, rather than another copy of Putrid Bile that can't be used.

In terms of hex removal, it also makes more sense to bring different hexes to cover for one another, than to bring only 1 hex and has to wait for another recast, when it is removed, before your Discord spam can continue.

If you are concerned that bringing different hexes would take casting time away from Discord (which I dont think you should be), then you may as well bring more healing for the just-in-case your party is in trouble situations rather than useless copies of the same hex.

AcousticMeanie · Aug 09, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

2 seconds cast time is not that bad in PvE, if that bothers you, just bring a 40/40 set.

Which is why you have minions to help with the tanking. Recovery is good for party wide condition and helps with MBAS and Spirit Light besides just relying on Life which monsters like to attack anyway. Life would also self die after 20s, which means MBAS would lose condition removal and Spirit Light would cost you 17% sac until it is recast so relying on Life means you probably need to recast it during battles.

On that note about conditions, I would also replace SoLS on necro hero 3 with [[Foul Feast].

EDIT: As for your updated build, you dont need to bring 2 copies of Putrid Bile, one would just override the other and waste energy/recharge for nothing and you certainly dont need to get rid of Aegis, it is hard to mess up that spell even from a hero.

I understand that points you're making, but respectfully disagree.

Two 2 second cast times and a 3 second spirit when the point is to cast discord IS a lot. Often the hero will cast the spirit hex 1 hex 2 condition...8 seconds of pure casting before a discord, that's not how it should flow.

To me the point of [Discord] is for fast effective killing, anything that hinders that speed is counterproductive. I'm not saying you're build doesn't work, or that it's even that bad; it's just...slow.

As far as Putrid Bile goes, Cathode_Reborn is right...they do not overwrite it.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 09, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

AP is suppose to be cast when the target is dying so it doesn't expire before that. Relying on AP for Discord doesn't make as much sense especially if it is a monk boss that keeps healing, and you dont want to cast AP too early. Some other hexes maybe more suitable. I agree with you on the updated Asuran Scan.

I got 10 in Deadly Arts so that's 12 secs to kill the target. That's way more than enough time to kill. Bosses recharge your skills anyways so doesn't matter if AP expires since I usually have another hex on me. AP + "Ymlad" handles everything so the heroes don't need to waste a single skill to meet Discord's reqs. That means I can bring more healing/defense/damage for a more overall better build

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

What if both heroes cast it on the same target at the same time?

Casted at the same time? ....

What are the chances of that happening?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Also Putrid Bile is hardly the best hex to bring for this. So you have 1 Putrid Bile cast and the other 2 can't even cast theirs? Is that suppose to be the optimal setup? You are bringing 3 hexes for a max of only 3 health degen, I may as well bring more degen hexes for the 2 other skill slots for more damage at least. The main advantage of Putrid Bile is, it is Death magic so you save some attribute points but at the expense of 2 other skill slots in the party that becomes useless for the next 17s or until the target dies? Not worth it.

I thought you personally had experience with Discord teams. You should know by now that once you call the target and it's got the hex/condition, it goes boom right there. Hero casts Bile, target blows up. Switch to next, repeat. I like AoE damage. It's armor-ignoring in a Nearby range. This is why I use AP + "Ymlad" at the start of every target - heroes can instantly start casting Discord right there without having to waste time applying hexes/conditions, because I do it for them without having to spec into unneeded attributes to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

If I need to kill fast, I would bring 3 different hexes and cast them on the target, not 3 copies of the same hex. Even suffering at level 0 curse would add an extra -1 degen to the target, rather than another copy of Putrid Bile that can't be used.

If I really need to kill something specific fast, I use the keys that I binded to Discord for all 3 heroes, rather than wasting time applying unneeded hexes. I also don't think an extra -1 degen would help out with the killing

Smurf Minions · Aug 09, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Use this bar, i've been using it shortly after placing the 4 necro composition on the wiki:

[Assassin's Promise][Finish Him][You Move Like A Dwarf][Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support] (rest optional, like a res and a few good spells of your own profesions, or backup conditions /hexes)

Just call your target with promise and then use dwarf while you're casting promise, then you have the choice of waiting for the heros to drop your target, or help them with finish him and/or sniper support.

As this will work for anything with +4 regen, anything else can take something that does a condition+hex or just let the heroes do their job.

As for the heroes, i play with those:

[build=OANDUslfOxsqAeANEQqH31qK]

[build=OAhjUwGZYOxsjqaYYO5qqjzLGA]

[build=OAhjUoGa4SxMKgHVTOSTUbVVXMA]

Works good at spiking the big damage/healers first then finishing of the less important targets

DarkSpirit · Aug 10, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcousticMeanie

I understand that points you're making, but respectfully disagree.

Two 2 second cast times and a 3 second spirit when the point is to cast discord IS a lot. Often the hero will cast the spirit hex 1 hex 2 condition...8 seconds of pure casting before a discord, that's not how it should flow.

To me the point of [Discord] is for fast effective killing, anything that hinders that speed is counterproductive. I'm not saying you're build doesn't work, or that it's even that bad; it's just...slow.

As far as Putrid Bile goes, Cathode_Reborn is right...they do not overwrite it.

I am saying you would need to recast life sooner or later unless you kill all mobs within 20s. Life is your only spirit and without it, you have zero condition removal as the build stands now. That means, if Life dies or expires, your physical character would have to deal with blind and weakness and if your casters are dazed then too bad. You dont even have foul feast. If you want to ask for an opinion on the weaknesses of the build that would be an obvious weakness right there, weak condition removal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

I got 10 in Deadly Arts so that's 12 secs to kill the target. That's way more than enough time to kill. Bosses recharge your skills anyways so doesn't matter if AP expires since I usually have another hex on me. AP + "Ymlad" handles everything so the heroes don't need to waste a single skill to meet Discord's reqs. That means I can bring more healing/defense/damage for a more overall better build

I thought you personally had experience with Discord teams. You should know by now that once you call the target and it's got the hex/condition, it goes boom right there. Hero casts Bile, target blows up. Switch to next, repeat. I like AoE damage. It's armor-ignoring in a Nearby range. This is why I use AP + "Ymlad" at the start of every target - heroes can instantly start casting Discord right there without having to waste time applying hexes/conditions, because I do it for them without having to spec into unneeded attributes to do it.

You forgot to account for hex removal, condition removal, and heals. 12s may or may not be enough time to kill a monk boss in HM if you cast AP at it from the very beginning, just to support discord. AP can be removed or expired through healing. That is the wrong way to use AP anyway. AP is suppose to be cast just before the boss dies, to increase the chance of success, not at the very beginning.

And if you dont need the extra hexes, I would bring more heals than bring extra copies of the same hex.

AcousticMeanie · Aug 10, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I am saying you would need to recast life sooner or later unless you kill all mobs within 20s. Life is the only spirit and without it, you have zero condition removal as your build stands now. That means your physical character would have to deal with blind and weakness and if your casters are dazed then too bad. You dont even have foul feast. If you want to ask for an opinion on the weaknesses of your build that would be an obvious weakness right there, weak condition removal.

First, I COMMENTED on a single hero not all 3. Second, you refer to these as my builds "If you want to ask for an opinion on the weaknesses of your build" they're not...they're the OP's. If I'm to blame for anything it's not witting a novel about how I would play it instead of just giving a little suggestion.

The OP stated these are BETA builds. You commented on what you thought would work, I commented on what I thought would work.

There are an infinite number of ways to run this concept, each of them have their own strengths and weaknesses. So when you pick apart a build don't be surprised if someone picks apart yours.

*Edit for spelling*

-Lotus- · Aug 10, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

Except thats the old version of the skill and the degen isnt bad.

all degen is bad.

2 degen is 4 dps... are you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing kidding me?

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 10, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

You forgot to account for hex removal, condition removal, and heals. 12s may or may not be enough time to kill a monk boss in HM if you cast AP at it from the very beginning, just to support discord. AP can be removed or expired through healing. That is the wrong way to use AP anyway. AP is suppose to be cast just before the boss dies, to increase the chance of success, not at the very beginning.

And if you dont need the extra hexes, I would bring more heals than bring extra copies of the same hex.

AP only gets removed if you let that happen. Kill the monks first or cover the hex. I never really have trouble with it getting removed cause I have a backup hex. Mark of Death is also a good way to deal with monks. But as I already said, I have all 3 Discords binded. I can spike most monks clean before they have a chance to do anything. I also didn't know I was using it "the wrong way"....

AP gets worse as the team gets sloppier - no calling, no focus, low damage. In a team like that, you have to be careful when you use AP. If someone's calling the targets and the team has high damage, it's safe to use AP on things with full life.

I've been using Discord + AP the day it got buffed, and all these things you've brought up have rarely ever been a prob. You just gotta play it right. A Discord team requires a little more effort from the player compared to other builds, but you get rewarded with massive damage.

joshuarodger · Aug 10, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

honestly i like the idea of suffering being in there, as it's a broad AoE hex that helps meet the condition for [[discord]. this way when the original target dies, you don't have to have another hex cast on the new target for discord to be effective. as your team build stands now, you only have one character with hexes (at least the 4-6 man version) and they could very easily have them removed, interrupted, on recharge or targeted on someone other than your target. if you aren't bringing any hexes, you could be out of luck with discord every now and then.

[[sufferin] may only offer a measly 2 degen but it could very easily affect the entire mob if it's the first skill used, has a long duration, would be tough to remove from every enemy, and even if it is removed, the recharge is short enough that it could easily be reapplied if necessary. basically what i'm saying is it synergizes well with the rest of the build even if it doesn't do a massive amount of damage. [[shadow of fear] only affects adjacent foes and has a 2 second cast time, which is much more likely to be interrupted, whereas [[suffering] is "nearby". notice i'm not saying [[suffering] is better than [[shadow of fear], just that i believe it synergizes better. hell i would take both instead of having two copies of [[putrid bile].

also i really don't care what everyone else says about [[mark of pain]. it's always on my hero's bar. even if they don't use it properly 100% of the time, when it does get used properly, it's definitely worth it.